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| Main > Questions > Rude people ? |
| Topic Review (Newest First) | |
| Anna | Its been a very loooong time since I have posted here, I usually just lurk  but I saw this and had to respond...in defense of what Vonda was saying.
My Joey is now almost 13 months old and the R word wasnt a word we allowed to be said in our house LONG before Joey was born....to us, in this house, that word is as degrading as using stupid or idiot and yes even the F word too! While I know what the word retarded means I still find it offensive. When Joey was dx'd with Ds 3 weeks after his birth we sat our older kids down and told them what Ds was and how it would affect Joey. A few weeks later my oldest son came home after having shared with his classmates about his little brother that one of his classmates told him that Joey was in other words " a retard"....my son knowing that word wasnt a word used in our house anyhow came home and asked me if Joey was really a retard and I said NO......Joey is delayed.....Joey will do ALL the things ANY other child will do but he will be slower at some things.....but I dont see Joey as being retarded and I dont refer to him as being that way as I find the word offensive. Perhaps it has a great deal to do with how society has used this word in the negative for so long...to me its just rude and painful...I have also seen many kids who pretend or make certain facial and body gestures when calling another the R word and it just turns my crank. maybe its me but I even find using words like Mentally challanged and such offensive....I choose to look and treat Joey just as I do my other kids and as Vonda said I would NEVER associate my childrens weakness's with words that hurt or can make them feel less than another. I too have TOTALY accepted my Joey's Ds but again his Ds is such a tiny little fragment of WHO he is and WHAT he will become and WHAT he will be and is already capable of doing. I think pretty much what Vonda was trying to say is that USING the R word is much like USING the F word TO HER...she finds it offensive and I have to agree with her.....I too find it offensive and its one of those forbidden words used in our house but it always has been as I said long before Joey was born! I also wanted to add that when Joey was 6 wks old I went in for my 6 wk check and the dr who delivered Joey asked me how he was doing...he NEVER voiced ANY suspicion to me the entire time from his birth thru the time we were in hospital concerning Joey, asked me how he was doing and I told him that he was dx'd with Ds and he said and I do directly quote this "Oh he is a MONGOLOID? I had heard that but wasnt sure" Well you know Mrs. V, these kids can do amazing things in spite of their retardation, with all the advances WE have made"....that blew me away really as he was referring to all the advances made and including himself in that yet there he was refering to MY baby as being a mongoloid as well as using the R word to describe my baby [Edited by Anna on 03-10-2001 at 03:22 PM] |
| vonda | This is a reply to Dodi:
Each of us have our own way of dealing with things and although you tend to continue calling your child mentally retarded, I have to draw the line there, even though Ds may be considered "mentally retarded". I don't give any of my children labels and I will NOT give my son this one. Mentally retarded means "to make slow, delay the progress, hinder or impede. My daughter Sophie is "slow" in her math group. My daughter Peyton is "delayed" in her reading. I am just thankful that when the teacher calls me telling me these findings that she uses the words "delayed" and "slow" because they are much easier for me to hear. I believe if she would call up and say "your daughter is quite retarded when it comes to her reading" I would be quite offended. You on the other hand don't seem to have a problem with this, and as I said to each his own. As I also said I don't want to give my children labels. I have 4 children, and they are CHILDREN first before they are anything else, the Ds comes in second and the slow part, well we deal with that as it comes. Noah is having eye surgery soon and when the doctor from Johns Hopkins told me that he likes to give "delayed" children first priority, I felt such a sense of overwhelming admiration for his choice of words. For me, I feel it would have been rude for him to call my son retarded. I belong to a parent support group for Down syndrome and in many of our discussions we have discussed this very issue and not one of the parents there use this word. Noah is just like my other children and he will do everything they will do,it will just take a little time. I cannot imagine him growing up hearing me call him "retarded" in my conversations with others, as he is not deaf. I still need to shed those dreaded last 10 lbs from having my last baby 3 months ago, and I feel it would be nicer for someone to say "you just need to get in shape", rather than "you sure do have a lot of FAT to get rid of". It's a respect thing really. It's just a matter of finding the right words. I would hate for him to think that I know him as my "retarded" son. Although he has Down syndrome and I HAVE accepted that, and share that with anyone who wants to listen to me, I STILL respect his feelings. These children used to be called "mongoloids" and now that term is unheard of, although it used to be used freely. You said yourself that you don't like that word. Why not? That's how I feel about the word "retarded". Sorry this is so long, but you hit a nerve here! I must have needed to vent. Vonda [Edited by vonda on 03-10-2001 at 08:58 AM] |
| Evesmother | I was one who suggested that we might once have been on the other side. I smile at everyone who stares and take any opportunity to speak to strangers. In my numerous hospital trips we see a lot of newborns with cleft palates and kids with facial deformities. I see how sensitive their parents are.My DS son usually paves the way for us because he will go up and want to see their baby. I watch the parents pull back but before they can respond..Jordan will be saying, "Ooo, so cute!" or kissing the baby's hand and smiling, while I can chime in to ask the sex and start chatting. Jordan's unconditional love for their child, I have no doubt, gives them a new awareness and appreciation of Down syndrome!
When the term retard is used it is an insult...but, Vonda, to consider it the "F word?" I just hate the euphemisms!!!! I hate developmentally-challenged, for example..because who isn't? So I use the term mentally-retarded to describe my son. I have reclaimed the term. There was a time that to call a person black was considered an insult. Then African-Americans gave power to the phrase 'Black is Beautiful'.The gay community has reclaimed the term 'queer.' If I sincerely believe there is nothing wrong, shameful or bad in being like Jordan, then why not take pride in reclaiming the term mentally-retarded? Unlike the myriad of euphemisms it is a clear and descriptive statement of fact..not a derogatory term. If someone uses the word "retard" as an insult, I will respond, "Yes, my son is mentally-retarded; What excuse do YOU have for YOUR ignorance?" |
| vonda | Hi, I haven't had anyone call my child such a name as of yet, and frankly hope I never do. I do not like the word "mongoloid", and even despise the word "retarded" even more. That word is like the "F" word in our house and we do NOT use it. Now while the pharmacist said that your baby does not look "mongoloid", I guess you could take that as a compliment, meaning he doesn't look like he has anything "wrong" with him. My son Noah has very slight features of Ds, just his almond eyes, and if I have heard that once I have heard it a thousand times "oh, he doesn't LOOK like he has Ds, he must be very MILD". I just smile and go on my merry way. I have had a few stares, but mostly accompanied by big smiles. A few students in my 7 year old twins class asked me "what is wrong with his eyes". My first thought was to slap them silly, but then I realized that this is such an innocent question. To my surprise they weren't EVEN talking about his almond shaped eyes, but the fact that Noah's eyes turn in from time to time (he will be having surgery in the next few months). Usually I don't let others make the first comments to me. I am SO proud of Noah and I get this "high" from letting others know that he has Ds. If I see someone staring at him or as I call it "admiring" him, I smile and start up a conversation and if they say something like "oh, he is a beautiful baby and has the most beautiful smile", then I will say something like "yes he does, that's one of the benefits of having Down syndrome". It totally blows them away sometimes. I think for one, they don't realize he has it and for another they can't believe that I can be this happy with a child with Ds, and so then they have NOTHING to say, realizing I have accepted it and so it must NOT be a bad thing. I think in one of the other posts someone mentioned the fact that before we our children with Ds, we might have been on the other side also. I can remember going shopping while I was pregnant with my son, not knowing he had Ds at the time, and I saw this woman walking around holding her baby girl on her shoulder and I just stared and stared at her thinking "oh, that poor ladies little girl has Down Syndrome". At the same time I remember thinking, "God she really seems to LOVE that baby an awful lot". I also remember thinking "that baby sure is cute". But I also remember staring and I feel SO guilty about that, but I was SO ignorant back then. Noah has changed me in SO many ways and I just want to pass the word to the entire world how WONDERFUL this can be. It is NOT a death sentence and it isn't even something terrible. It's up to us to make others see these children the way that we do and I think if we try hard enough we can. We just have to stay completely positive no matter what rude remarks are thrown our way!!! Take care and love that baby! Vonda [Edited by vonda on 03-09-2001 at 09:48 AM] |
| Ruth Murphy | It gets easier. Hannah is three and I get people telling me things like, "Wow, you would never know if you didn't know!" or "She doesn't look like Downs." I take it in stride now and just reply as if they meant it as a compliment. I just give ignorance a break. People don't know how to be. They are probably trying to be kind but usually end up putting their foot in their mouth. It's funny really.
I usually say, "Thank you. We are truly blessed. She looks like her daddy." [smiles] Love, Ruth |
| Samantha | Julian is 9 months old and I have been lucky to not have anyone make such rude comments. People have stared, which does really get under my skin. One day I was in a store with Julian and the clerk came over to say hi to him and suddenly her voice became like a whisper and she just kept saying "You're such a special baby". Which he is...to me. He has changed my whole life and the way I see other people. I can honestly say that I wasn't a very compassionate person before he came along. That's why it's hard for me sometimes...not because of his Down's. Like others here there are days that go by and the words Down Syndrome never enter my mind. But I have days where I just feel overwhelmed...but it's mainly because my whole life went through such a quick change so fast. I honestly hate it when people come up to me and say "Special". It's like their nice way of saying retard. That's another word I hate because when people say that word nowadays..like "You're a retard". What definition does that draw up-idiot...stupid. The word retard means "to slow...or at a slower pace". I prefer Julian be called mentally handicapped.
Okay I've rambled. I must say that I don't blame you for getting angry or for having thoughts of flying off the handle. I am still in that phase of "If you look at my kid cross-eyed I'll deck you." But I don't think that's something I'll ever just "accept". If someone is just ignorant without being malicious that's one thing. But if someone says something with the purpose of being downright rude I think you have the absolute right to tell them where to shove their stupid comments. Samantha Mommy of Julian 9 mos (DS) |
| Nancy H | Since we had Abigail( now 19 monthes old), we have discovered the ingorance of people. I have lost a friendship since she has been born. this woman acted like she was dying when in fact she was about ready to leave the hospital healthy. I have found that I don't mind the questions about her. I see that as a time to ecducate people. I had a situation occur yesterday with the previous friend. She told me that I could not accept the fact the Abigail has DS. Keep in mind that she has not see my daughter since she was 1 week old because she was uncomfortable. I was very upset yesterday that anyone could say something like that about me or my daughter. There are days that I forget that she has DS. I realize that I do not have room in my life for ignorant people. Abigail has help myself and my family realize what is important in life. |
| Solveig | I guess all of us sometimes just choke at what people say to us and about our kids. I am not very diplomatic, and if you catch me on a bad day, I'll reply to statements of this sort in a manner I know is not always very polite.
I remember when Bene was 8 months old, we went to a birthday party, and there was this other mom there with her two kids, and the third on the way. She had not seen Bene for 2 months, and the first thing she noticed, was how small she was! Not the fact that Bene was actually sitting up by herself, or the fact that she was trying to scoot. When she commented on how small she was, "like she's still just 3 months old", I couldn't help myself. I looked her right in the eye, knowing that her kids are above average when it comes to size, and told her that flowers grow slower than weeds. Yes, I regreted it later, and I know that I could very well have been just a tad more educational. Then again, sometimes learning comes from a punch in the gut, and for her that day, it did. My opinion is that we have the right to get offended some times, and I'd like to think that once Bene is grown, she'll know that her mother wouldn't have people stereotype her, or say negative things about her, especially in her precense. Does anyone else have a thought on that side of the matter? Solveig |
| Summer | Hi David,
I can relate a lot to you. Here (in the Netherlands) it's just like Evesmother says. In our first meeting with the pediatrician a week after Summer's birth, he used the word 'Mongool' two times. When my wife and I simultaniously responded to that,his reply was when we asked him not to use this word 'what shall I call her then?' And you have to be sure that it's ignorance or arrogance, like in this case. I have to live with the word 'mongool'. Yesterday in a babystore, I told the employee there that Summer had Down. He didn't know what that was. In the backer's store the girl who helped us, replied after telling her:'but she will get better won't she?'In these cases I have to use the word because that clarifies what she has. In my first meeting with a group of other parents I ended up in a discussion with a other dad about this subject. He called his son 'mongool'. And he is not alone in this, there are more parents who insist calling their children 'mongool'. I just try to explain it when people call her that. I only get angry when a proffesional makes that mistake. In your case the anger is not so strange, I haven't got it because I don't know on who I should be angry that Summer has Down. He David (and Judy ofcourse) take care of yourselfs, hope to chat with you soon again. Love Rob PS TO EVESMOTHER!!! is everything okay? didn't hear from you anymore? |
| Evesmother | My son who has Down syndrome will be 19 this June, so let me assure you that you will learn to have the quick come-backs! But no need to be angry. Think about it...maybe a few months ago you were just as uninformed? Even if I catch a person staring, I smile and say, "My son has Down syndrome. If you are wondering about something, I'd be happy to answer your questions." And yes, there are times when you can't help but have fun with it. If a pharmacist in Canada were to say what was said to you..I'm sure my answer would be, "Heavens! He's my son. Do I look like I come from Mongolia? My son has Down syndrome." I admit that I have a habit, when professionals are talking-down to me, or treating me like a 'poor-dumb-mother,' of saying, "Excuse me..It's my son that is mentally-retarded, not me..." The shock value of that statement in a country that no longer uses the term retarded, ensures that they remember to treat me differently from that point onwards! People who stare are doing nothing wrong but right now you are being over-sensitive, so realize that. I do think that it's unfortunate that in the Netherlands even the Drs. are guilty of using the term Mongol (which was once Mongolian Idiot) and I think it's high-time your organization there demands they change! If the medical establishment shows such ignorance, what can you expect from the ordinary person who has never learned anything different? You are now an Ambassador of Angels...so govern yourself accordingly! LOL Peace! |
| HiCourt | David,
Bite your lip..... Yes you did the right thing by walking away, especially if you have alot of anger. My daughter is 6 1/2 years old. We never get the term Mongloid or Mongrul, but we do get, "she doesn't look like she has Downs". Sometimes I can be a smart butt, and sometimes I'll just let it go in one ear and out the other and smile. It does depend on my mood. You know like, "so, does that mean anything?" "Since she doesn't look like she has downs, I guess she'll be okay, huh?" You do need to educate poeple, we all do. I guess that's the only way, that all of this nonsense will stop. Congrats BTW on the birth of your daughter. I'm sure she is beautiful. But I'm biased to little girls with downs. Have you shared any pics yet?? When is her heart surgery? If you want to talk, my email is dcajng@yahoo.com Jenn |
| Heather | David,
My son will be 8 months old on the 14th of March. We found out he had DS when he was 3 weeks old. Someone asked me if Ian was a mongoloid and I promptly informed him that No he wasnt a mongoloid but a little boy who had DS!!! I refuse to accept that term because it is so outdated but I have to remember that some people are not that educated on DS!! I have been asked to do a Peds Staffing for a local Nursing school. The students will graduate in May of this year. What I have to do is take Ian to the school and tell our story and then answer their questions!! I am going to bring up that our children are capable of so much more than in the past!!! |
| Kelly | Dear David,
I have not gotten that particular remark, but so many people have said so many strange things to me! I agree that you can educate those sorts of people by telling them what their comments really mean to you. Too often, I am so surprised by what people say that I cannot think of a good comeback until it's too late! One of my kids teachers was talking to me about Mia a couple weeks ago, and relating her very positive experiences in working with kids with Down's, and what wonderful children they are, and that I am so lucky to have Mia. I still don't feel very lucky, but I accepted that she got carried away and probably had no idea what that sounded like to me. You kind of have to get a thick skin about it all, I guess, and decide what battles you're going to fight and which to let go. Letting go is sometimes just as hard work though! |
| grop00 | i have been in the same place as your self.i know the hurt and anger at people who dont know the diff.there is no easy answer,just remember that people who say those thing dont really know what they are talking about because if they did they would no that is a very old term that is no longer used.you should feel free to very nicly explain that your child has downs and is not from mongolia..as a mongol is a person from mongolia.trust me after saying this it genrally puts them on the back foot ,and they will not make the same mistake twice......its only because they do not know so dont be too hard on them..but like i said there is no easy answer and its hard to belive that these people do not see the child for what they are like we do (wonderful inspiring,loving people) .try to keep your chin up,it does get better.. |
| David & Judy Brown | I have a question for everybody.Vanessa is now 3 months old and I'm still trying to cope with her DS and is getting ready for her heart surgery.It really hurts me to think about it but the other day we was in the pharmacy picking up her medicines and the pharmist looked at her and said she doesn't look like a mongroul (thats dutch for downs)that really hurt me badly I was stunned I didnt know what to do or what to say. My question is what should i have done flew off the handle and got really nasty with her or just let it be in one ear and out the other? It really made me mad so i just walked away.why can't people just mind their own business and keep their comments to their self.i'm a father with alot of anger inside of me and i'm just lookin for someone to take out my anger out on.Did I do the right thing?
David |
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