DownSyn Forum

Excalibur · Last edited by Excalibur on May 17 2011, 2:24 PM; edited 1 time in total

I have been a fairly happy parent/person for 57 years and despite a religious education, never felt the need to pray once I actually had the choice and reached the age of 14 or so. Any other parents out there feel the same way as me? Apparently well under 10% of the adult population actually attend church/mosque/temple/etc every week, so why should we be any different?

"The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion".

Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/k/karl_marx_2.html#ixzz1MddrT5eh

_________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

Edensmama · Posted: May 17 2011, 2:24 PM Post subject:

Hi there. I wasn't sure how to answer your poll. If I answer "Yes" is that a vote for religion or is that a vote agreeing with you that we don't need religion? Anyway...my answer is I absolutely need Jesus (not religion, per se, which is not the same in my opinion). I needed him before having kids, and I need him now. Can't imagine this journey of life without the hope he gives. Smile

_________________
Nathalie
Mom to Eden (DS) 4-13-08
Wife to Luciano (the best daddy in the world) since 10-8-2005
www.caringbridge.org/visit/edensalem

Excalibur · Posted: May 17 2011, 2:28 PM Post subject:

Aha, good point! Yes is a personal vote for religion (any kind of religious/faith/belief system) whilst No is a vote supporting rational, sceptical belief systems of any kind. It simplifies a fairly wide spectrum: I gather there are even some Anglicans and Buddhists who dont actually believe in a Deity per se as opposed to a sort of abstract disembodied concept of goodness, but I expect they can figure it out or abstain. Laughing

_________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

Oxy · Posted: May 17 2011, 3:50 PM Post subject:

No Jesus, allah or any other "gods" for me. Very Happy

I believe in science. I believe facts. I believe in what I can see. This while religion is so overrated these days. Some people use religion as a ground for hating/discriminating others....it causes wars and people are doing crazy things in the name of god. Maybe there is something higher than us, I am sure there is, not god necessarily.....but for me it doesn't make any difference in life. We build our own destiny our own life and I don't see god being much involved lately. Lol. But whatever helps people sleep better, I certainly don't think that having a religion is bad or wrong, people find their peace and comfort in different things.....its just not for me.

_________________

Oksana, mom to Andrew (17/07/2005) DS

wmartv · Posted: May 17 2011, 10:30 PM Post subject:

I was raised a good Catholic girl and although I admit to not being so good at attending mass...and I disagree with the church on many subjects...I still like the idea of a higher power we can pray too. My faith is not so strong that I know for certain that there is a God but I figure better safe than sorry! It is a shame though that religion is used as a negative force so often in this world. I do believe in "One God" and that the actual religion doesn't matter.

_________________
Marge
mom to Michelle 4/7/98
and Rebecca 9/30/03 (DS)

McKaylasmom · Posted: May 17 2011, 11:14 PM Post subject:

I believe in God, just not all that convinced about some churches. Some preachers out there use the church to push their beliefs and not always the ones in the scripture since it can be interpreted in different ways. if that makes sense.

_________________
Windy

Nathyrra · Posted: May 18 2011, 5:17 AM Post subject:

I understand and respect why people believe in a higher being. I just don't believe myself. I think too scientifically, like Oxy mentioned. I would love love love there to be a rhyme and reason for life, and would love to be proven wrong. But no, it's not something that is part of my life.

_________________

Momtoseven · Posted: May 18 2011, 8:31 AM Post subject:

This post should be under "shoot the breeze".

I'm with Nathalie. I could not navigate this life without my faith in God.

_________________
Maureen - Mom to Daniel(24), Brandon(22), Jordan(16), Thomas(14), Carrie(10), Samuel(7) and Mark (4)
https://www.carepages.com/carepages/MarkEdwardC32708

Solveig · Posted: May 18 2011, 9:17 AM Post subject:

I agree that the topic should be moved, and I moved it to shoot the breeze.

We've had threads before about people's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) that have turned a bit heated, so I'm taking the opportunity to remind everyone of our forum rule: Be Nice Smile

_________________
Mom to:
Jesper 07/23/95 (stepson)
Hanne Torill 06/06/98 (daughter)
Benedikte 04/14/00 DS (daughter)
Mads & Emil 07/05/00 (stepsons)
Svein Atle 05/13/03 (son)

Excalibur · Posted: May 18 2011, 4:15 PM Post subject:

Solveig wrote:

I agree that the topic should be moved, and I moved it to shoot the breeze.

We've had threads before about people's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) that have turned a bit heated, so I'm taking the opportunity to remind everyone of our forum rule: Be Nice Smile

Thanks. Actually people are being very nice, and that's good. I think as mature adults we should be able to share our views, and the voting so far is very interesting and pretty much in line with national opinion polls, though these do vary a bit with Scandinavians being the most sceptical, and the Africans the most likely to be believers. I work for a major social research company, and I am always asking this question: a lot of people here in Scotland tell me they were raised in a particular religion (as indeed I was) but don't go to church anymore, strictly weddings and funerals. I always feel a little bit embarassed by appeals to prayer: they put me on the spot. Yes, I hope things work out well for everyone, of course, but no, I dont personally think that prayer will sort out the problem: if it did, then life would be a whole lot more pleasant!
When my son was born with DS, my brother (a born-again evangelist) rather blotted his copybook by making an incredibly facile comment about being inhabited by devils and this rather put me off the whole idea of religion. I've forgiven him long ago, of course, after all, he is still my brother, and he also brews some fine home made beer and wine. Being nice isn't the exclusive preserve of either believers , or unbelievers, its just a sensible response to the fact that we all screw up sometimes and make stupid comments without thinking them through.

_________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

JanetG · Posted: May 19 2011, 8:58 AM Post subject:

I was raised Catholic, but grew away from that faith in my 20s and 30s, as I didn't really feel I was getting anything out of it. About 5 years ago, shortly after moving to KC, I found a wonderful non-denominational church that I absolutely love. They are warm, caring, and welcoming. Not to say that there couldn't be hypocrisy there, because I think all churches have it to some degree, but I haven't experienced any of it.

And its interesting that this topic came up because our pastor is doing a series on science vs. religion, how the two intertwine, and how different factors which occurred in our universe cannot be explained by even the best scientist.... I believe in God, without a doubt...

_________________
Janet (47)
Joshua (angel) '85 (1 day old)
Sarah-age 25
Jaret-age 8
Jacey-born 2/22/08 (dx w/ Ds 9/10/07)

Ditta · Posted: May 19 2011, 9:40 AM Post subject:

I was agnostic all my life until a couple of years ago. Certain things happened that made me change. Not the kind of things that I could explain to anyone else in order to change *their* beliefs, but they were enough for me. Now I absolutely believe in God. I did have to try quite hard to get over my mistrust of organised religion though. In the end I figured that how Christians/Churches behave is no reflection of God, only a reflection of how THEY interpret what God says -(or their own fears/shelfishness/ambitions etc.) Some do better, some do worse...

_________________
Matilda (2005,) Philip (2007,) Teddy (DS, 2009) & Ramona (2012)
Blog: http://www.ab8matilda.blogspot.com

seansmom · Posted: May 19 2011, 11:30 AM Post subject:

Albert Einstein was a Christian.... hmmmm

_________________

Kellie Mom to Sean 10 yrs with DS and Carly 14 yrs

Momtoseven · Posted: May 19 2011, 1:29 PM Post subject:

Ditta wrote:

In the end I figured that how Christians/Churches behave is no reflection of God, only a reflection of how THEY interpret what God says -(or their own fears/shelfishness/ambitions etc.) Some do better, some do worse...

So true - unfortunately we are all human including church leaders and so many religious groups are judged by the actions and mistakes of some of their leaders.

_________________
Maureen - Mom to Daniel(24), Brandon(22), Jordan(16), Thomas(14), Carrie(10), Samuel(7) and Mark (4)
https://www.carepages.com/carepages/MarkEdwardC32708

Excalibur · Posted: May 19 2011, 6:22 PM Post subject:

JanetG wrote:

its interesting that this topic came up because our pastor is doing a series on science vs. religion, how the two intertwine, and how different factors which occurred in our universe cannot be explained by even the best scientist.... I believe in God, without a doubt...

I have never felt the need to have everything explained. I mean, 100 years ago, nobody knew anything much about genetics, so DS was a total mystery - and so were many of the facts we now take for granted. So it seems reasonable to me that 1000 years from now, science will have come up with a lot more answers to things that are currently a total mystery. That's why I think mysteries are actually OK, it would be a bit presumptuous to say that we can know what is essentially unknowable: I mean, we are a very new species of life on a fairly minor planet on the edge of an obscure galaxy: so a bit of modesty seems sensible.

_________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

Tom · Posted: May 19 2011, 7:09 PM Post subject:

seansmom wrote:

Albert Einstein was a Christian.... hmmmm

Actually he was a Jewish agnostic.

More...

_________________
Tom

Dad to Beth ( 20 ) and Mikey (15 - Ds and PDD-NOS)
My Blog - Random Thinking
Find me on Facebook
Find me on Twitter as tgpaul

seansmom · Posted: May 19 2011, 10:02 PM Post subject:

Ack! You are absolutely right Tom> hanging my head in shame now.

I think I got him mixed up with Newton.... and I double checked that just in case. My point was that there are famous scientists that are Christians. Just a little tidbit of info. Not that it makes a difference. We are all on a journey. No one is exactly on the same one or is in the exact same place.

Have a good night!

Kellie

_________________

Kellie Mom to Sean 10 yrs with DS and Carly 14 yrs

Tom · Posted: May 19 2011, 10:04 PM Post subject:

Newton was indeed a very religious man.

And you have a good night, too.

_________________
Tom

Dad to Beth ( 20 ) and Mikey (15 - Ds and PDD-NOS)
My Blog - Random Thinking
Find me on Facebook
Find me on Twitter as tgpaul

Tigger · Posted: May 20 2011, 12:58 AM Post subject:

Can't really answer the poll because I don't believe in a religion as such. Yes, I believe in God and I am a christian.

That isn't exactly a religion in my book, but rather a way of life.

Mostly I am irreligious which might explain why I haven't fit into many churches but then again, Jesus didn't fit in either and spent most of his ministry getting in trouble with the established church and religious people so I believe I am in good company LOL.

_________________
Karyn
Mum to Nikki (Jul 89), Stefanie (Sep 96), Joel [June 98] and Talitha (DS) (Nov 05) AVSD/PDA repaired 23 March 06

"I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well." Psalm 139:14

mij · Posted: May 21 2011, 10:13 AM Post subject:

I believe in god, but i try not to be apart of anyones religion. for starters growing up i hated to be around a lot of people so when my mother made me go to church, most of the time i played with my fingers, and looked down well in my seat the pastor yelled out everything. and one time it seem every time i went he was talking about death. now that did damage me.
it seem ever month around my mother natural time i think of death and i really believe if my foster mother didn't scared us half to death with us dieing early in such. example: when I was five i had a meltdown because i lost my favorite doll her answer ungrateful kids die early. it was like every day she said something like this to me.

Excalibur · Posted: June 05 2011, 6:28 PM Post subject:

I dont think bad experiences with individual preachers or followers are a good reason to abandon faith. I mean, all belief systems have explanations for "sin". Yet some of them are very good at trying to cover it up in their clergy or congregations, when push comes to shove.
I also don't think that miracles explain anything, mainly because they are so random. Let's say we walk away from a plane crash, whilst 100 other people die: is that divine intervention, luck, or just random chance? Well, it has got to be chance, otherwise we are dealing with a very nasty kind of God, Shiva the destroyer, a God that I wouldn't want to meet on a dark night.
We have all experienced unlikely things happen: some favourable, some unfavourable: and just because that Tornado destroyed your neighbours house and left your own house intact is hardly a good reason to break out the Bible: 'God' doesn't work that way, but if he does, I won't be voting for him at the next election.
(And yes I do believe in democracy, as I hope we all do, so if 'God' can't deliver the goods by improving our lives or making some sense of them, he might as well go the same way as all the other failed politicians who promised a lot but couldn't deliver).
Chidren and adults with Down Syndrome are not "Angels". They are just people like us but with a significant genetic condition that will force them, and us, to make a lot of adjustments, for the rest of our and their lives. I don't think we should soft-soap this issue, or pretend it is a bed of roses. And frankly, I don't see what God has to do with it: this is a random and fairly rare genetic mutation, not something that fits into any grand design. At it's best, it is a celebration of diversity and a triumph over adversity, at it's worst, it is a very heavy burden.

_________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

Emdad · Posted: June 05 2011, 9:09 PM Post subject:

There's a lot to this. Here's some blather for ya.
There is often quite a disparity between a particular flavor/denomination's actual theology and how individual congregations and individuals ultimately and practically interpret it. Think "Sermon on the Mount" in Life of Brian - "did he say blessed are the cheesemakers?" - - "I think he's referring to all manufacturers of dairy products." I think that most evangelicals would be surprised at how far at odds their personal beliefs truly vary from their church's stated theology on many issues. Having said that -
The concept of miracles and God's protection/lack thereof is an easy pitfall; speculation on particular events deigns to know the mind of God, which by definition is impossible(by most definitions). One is eventually reduced(?) to saying (scripturally) that "all things work together for good" and return to a point of faith in a God that will weave all of the threads together to create an ultimate meaning. One has to, because, as you pointed out, Excalibur, otherwise God turns out to be malevolent. That's the faith part.
If one accepts that God, for example, is the driving force behind "natural selection", then that process includes things like Trisomy 21. If one does not accept that God is the author, then the same applies, practically speaking. What then matters is how we deal with it as human beings, driven ultimately in a faith in plain humanity or divinely inspired humanity. "Sin" used to be the cause of everything - from a believer's point of view. The discoveries of science and medicine have mitigated this over the centuries (along with the teachings of Jesus, if one is truly paying attention) to the point where "sin" has become a more amorphous force influencing rather than causing the events in our and (more to the point) others' lives.
All of this fence-sitting is to say that, IMHO, God either has everything to do with it or nothing at all. . . there's no in-between. A well-read person of faith can give all manner of reasoning, much of it that is more realistically based in long-term theology and Bible 'scholarlieness' than the average, er, Christian (I say this not as an elitist, but as the son of a minister sent to a Bible-based college). As you have written, it is a matter of faith. Persons (and Parsons) are not where anyone's faith should lie.
Having said that - Faith in God or not -
How do we deal with diversity, in all of it's forms. How far away from our personal/societal "norm" does someone get before we reject them? How far does 'universal' acceptance go? Polygamy? Same-sex marriage? Pedophilia? Bestiality? Granted, these are points far apart on a spectrum that I'm neither an expert or even really an interested student of, LOL. I'm making a very gross point.
It's the 'lines' that we deal with, and we have children that are already over a significant portion of our society's 'line', already.
As Spartans, we would have thrown our babies off a cliff.
Later on, they would have been seen as demon-possessed (although different cultures, like Native Americans, saw them as divine. Go figure).
Prevailing theories allowed them to be painted with ethnic (and thereby lesser) characteristics, Mongolians being savages, of course.
The ongoing and important discussion, then, to me, is beyond causation. How do we as a society deal with those who don't fall into the middle of the "Bell Curve."
And that's what I was trying to say. Whew.

DellaMaria · Posted: August 11 2011, 1:29 PM Post subject:

I'm the same as you Excalibur. I was raised Catholic but after I turned 15 and had made my confirmation (had to) I have never gone back to church other than for weddings, christenings and funerals. I do believe there is a God but I don't believe in religion.

shea01 · Posted: November 25 2011, 8:42 PM Post subject:

I believe in God. Every time I look at my son, I know God loves me.

_________________
www.1familytogether.blogspot.com

Helen · Posted: November 26 2011, 5:01 PM Post subject:

I am a Christian. However, I'm far from religious. I don't do my faith once a week following a set of rules and regulations. I try to live my faith 24/7.

I remember, one of the first questions I wrote when I joined this board 8 years ago, was 'Does everyone on here believe in God?' In the UK, it's so rare to hear people say, 'Im praying for you' or something similar, though my friends from US say it all the time. UK is so different than US, in that respect.

People cause each other so much hurt in the name of religion. To me, it goes totally against the whole point of having a faith. That's why I can't call my faith religion. Christians trample on their fellow brothers and sisters. And it goes across the board, for all faiths. It goes throughout the whole of society. I guess, for me, I just expect more from a group of people who preach acceptance, love and forgiveness. That said, we all mess, and we're still human!

_________________
Helen

Mum to ...
Rachael, Matt - DS & Autism - and Hannah. My gorgeous kids!

Tom · Posted: November 26 2011, 10:30 PM Post subject:

Quote:

That said, we all mess, and we're still human!

Amen!

_________________
Tom

Dad to Beth ( 20 ) and Mikey (15 - Ds and PDD-NOS)
My Blog - Random Thinking
Find me on Facebook
Find me on Twitter as tgpaul

beckysmum · Posted: November 27 2011, 3:00 AM Post subject:

Hi ,all these threads are very interesting , personaly I have no religon and I dont believe in religon , I wish I did because I see how much strength religon brings to people but my mind just doesnt believe any of it. I totaly respect any other persons religon , I never have and never would get into a religious debate.
I am married to a catholic and my children are being brought up to think for their selfs and make their own decisions about religon I always give them both views when they ask any questions about god , jesus , budda etc and they have always had it drummed into them to always respect others regardless of religon , beliefs etc because there is a lot of religous hate in Scotland between Protestants and Catholics .

_________________
Claire & Chris , Mum and Dad to Bethany 05/03/1998 Calum 03/09/2004 Rebekah DS 13/01/2011

Ally's mum · Posted: November 28 2011, 5:51 PM Post subject:

Well...I was brought up in the church and went on to study Theology which opened my mind up big time. I no longer believe in a supernatural sort of God who can fix things. However, I think the faith journeys recounted in different scriptures can offer enormous comfort and wisdom. Am I a Christian because I like the way of life portrayed in Christian scripture by some bloke called Jesus. (And I try to follow this....fail miserably often LOL) But I also have great respect for all other faiths......those that teach love and forgiveness, acceptance and tolerance, inclusivity and compassion that is. So I dont really know what label to wear Very Happy